Curse

Chrisworld · Mar 08, 2011, 02:55 AM // 02:55

I'd like to see Paragon get a few tweaks. Don't get me wrong, they have a few great skills but the class as a whole leaves me wanting more.

Daeheru · Mar 08, 2011, 03:09 AM // 03:09

[QUOTE=kajusbonus;5412049]>>

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daeheru

So what do you guys think is the next profession to get a big update? The following already have recently (somewhat):

Dervish
Warrior
Mesmer
Ritualist
>>>>>Assassin (I think I remember one?)

>>>Assassin (I think I remember one?)
>>>(I think I remember one?)

wat

Well that's a quote fail right there. I'm going to assume you're talking about me mentioning a sin update. If I remember correctly, it was the last time SF got nerfed, and some other skills were changed. However, now that I think about it I believe the update was mostly for PvP purposes (I can't remember exact details so it's hard to say, but I remember that around that time sins were extremely popular and complained about a lot, ie Seeping Wound).

Edit: Wow I think your quote fail messed my quote up too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiogoSilva

It's actually the necromancer that got an update (for blood magic) and the assassin that needs some tweaks.

And however thinks elementalists and rangers are fine as they are now for pve... well, let's just say, they are in the same situation as the dervishes were: completely outclassed in everything by other profs. The only big difference between those two and the old dervs, is that at least ele and ranger are decently balanced for pvp.

Now that you mention it I vaguely remember a necro update some time ago, I probably just don't remember too well because I don't play necro and it probably didn't affect me too much.

So it seems that most people are thinking similarly to how I was. Para needs an update, eles could use one (1 attribute is nearly useless in general PvE, actually 2 because earth magic doesn't see much action outside of farming and SCs).

Rangers in my opinion are ok, just ok. Maybe some tweaking as they aren't meant for damage, so there aren't many builds out there that can do much (I have a couple that work well with my ranger, and are not splinter barrage and I don't believe his heroes' builds compliment his specifically). That leaves only a support role, which is what they are meant for, but that doesn't make a huge difference in PvE. For example mesmers are better at rangers because of fast casting and there's no delay between when the spell is cast and when it interrupts, plus mesmers can easily interrupt multiple enemies. Rangers don't shine in anything, but they aren't bad at anything either.

So anybody have any specific ideas as to how these professions could be fixed, mainly paragon.

Bright Star Shine · Mar 08, 2011, 01:32 PM // 13:32

First up are ele's on my list, they need to be pulled out of the well they were dropped in to where the only useful thing they can do is ER prot. There is something seriously wrong with your game when your nuking profession, which, as stated on the official website "can do more damage with a single spell than any other profession" is a better prot than your healer profession, and that same healer profession is a better nuker than the ele, or am I just seeing things?

Para's can use some love, but I don't give a damn honestly. And rangers need to be looked at too.

Necro's are fine as they are. They can do loads of damage, have some good shutdown skills, pressure with degen, conditions, etc.

yitjuan · Mar 08, 2011, 02:19 PM // 14:19

btw what does Blood Magic for Necro and Smiting Prayers for Monking do? Do these two trees need reworking as well, albeit minor?

Bright Star Shine · Mar 08, 2011, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Smiting can still do quite a bit of damage, if used properly. In HM you even outdamage an ele with it, which is ridiculous.

AndrewSX · Mar 08, 2011, 02:43 PM // 14:43

And blood is mostly used in pvp. In pve there are still nice skills for support(mark of fury, blood bond, blood ritual, etc.)

agrios · Mar 08, 2011, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Id say Eles could use some love, since nowadays everyone seems to outdamage them.

But with that comes an issue: some elementalist monsters are already scary (specially if packed in groups). I we get some fiery mojo, so will they, unless ANet re-balance the mobs, what can take quite some time and effort.

But one thing that (maybe) should help eles in HM it would be if monsters were somehow aligned with some element.

For an example: Icy/Plant monsters should halve all damage and all effects associated with water. In other hand, they should receive +50% damage when hit by fire spells and having its harmfull effects, like burning, increased by 20%.

Beastie mobs (like minotaurs, insects and humans) should remain neutral alignment wise.

Additionally, what really could add some spice is if every elemental spell should have a "luck effect" associated. For example: all fire spells could have some probability (to say, 1% to every 2 points in the associated attribute) of inflicting burning. In the same way, water could slow, all earth could blind or weaken, and all air could crack armor or daze.

I believe that could add some color to the endgame, nowadays dominated by the dark powers of armor ignoring damage.

Maybe we could change the focus. Instead of making Eles more powerful, simply by pumping their muscle, what could lead to another cycle of powercreep, we should find a way of monsters to be more vulnerable to elemental spells somehow, like the one I explained before.

What say you?

Daeheru · Mar 08, 2011, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by agrios

Id say Eles could use some love, since nowadays everyone seems to outdamage them.

But with that comes an issue: some elementalist monsters are already scary (specially if packed in groups). I we get some fiery mojo, so will they, unless ANet re-balance the mobs, what can take quite some time and effort.

But one thing that (maybe) should help eles in HM it would be if monsters were somehow aligned with some element.

For an example: Icy/Plant monsters should halve all damage and all effects associated with water. In other hand, they should receive +50% damage when hit by fire spells and having its harmfull effects, like burning, increased by 20%.

Beastie mobs (like minotaurs, insects and humans) should remain neutral alignment wise.

Additionally, what really could add some spice is if every elemental spell should have a "luck effect" associated. For example: all fire spells could have some probability (to say, 1% to every 2 points in the associated attribute) of inflicting burning. In the same way, water could slow, all earth could blind or weaken, and all air could crack armor or daze.

I believe that could add some color to the endgame, nowadays dominated by the dark powers of armor ignoring damage.

Maybe we could change the focus. Instead of making Eles more powerful, simply by pumping their muscle, what could lead to another cycle of powercreep, we should find a way of monsters to be more vulnerable to elemental spells somehow, like the one I explained before.

What say you?

I kind of like this, but as always with any update to eles, ele mobs become pretty scary (think of the burning spirits in sacnoth valley now, then think of them after an ele buff). The ele prof will have to be completely reworked for players to keep mobs in PvE from becoming OP.

AndrewSX · Mar 08, 2011, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by agrios

Id say Eles could use some love, since nowadays everyone seems to outdamage them.

About this we agree all.

Quote:

But with that comes an issue: some elementalist monsters are already scary (specially if packed in groups). I we get some fiery mojo, so will they, unless ANet re-balance the mobs, what can take quite some time and effort.

I've heard loads of times the thing "OMG; don't buff ele, HM ele mobs are already smashing my team!". Well, it's the way the game work. I mean, why, then, nobody screamed like that when they changed Rits and Memers? Now you can be hit by some 400ish Spirit Rifts, 120ish E-surge( x4, think about roaring ethers groups), but nobody is QQing. Why Eles should be different?
Also, it's easier to counter ele damage respect armor ignoring. Wards, SY(and anything add armor), interrups(cause eles are just the toy of a good mesmer), just for example.

Quote:

But one thing that (maybe) should help eles in HM it would be if monsters were somehow aligned with some element.

For an example: Icy/Plant monsters should halve all damage and all effects associated with water. In other hand, they should receive +50% damage when hit by fire spells and having its harmfull effects, like burning, increased by 20%.

Beastie mobs (like minotaurs, insects and humans) should remain neutral alignment wise.

This solution was already discussed, and i still believe that isn't the way to go. It would bind the skill choices of players to the mob composition, wich can be even couteractive(e.g:meele mobs weak to fire/water and resistant to earth/air, wich meas no eruption/Bsurge/mass blind for follow the mob weaknesses).

Quote:

Additionally, what really could add some spice is if every elemental spell should have a "luck effect" associated. For example: all fire spells could have some probability (to say, 1% to every 2 points in the associated attribute) of inflicting burning. In the same way, water could slow, all earth could blind or weaken, and all air could crack armor or daze.

I believe that could add some color to the endgame, nowadays dominated by the dark powers of armor ignoring damage.

Just reminding you....HM mobs have very higher attribute levels. If a player could inflict burning even 10% of times, a HM mob could do it 20-25% of times.

This is just repeating what said in countless other threads.
The "Ele HM damage and crappy skills/attributes" problem is already discussed: the point now is hope that Anet will do something.

agrios · Mar 08, 2011, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewSX

About this we agree all.

I've heard loads of times the thing "OMG; don't buff ele, HM ele mobs are already smashing my team!". Well, it's the way the game work. I mean, why, then, nobody screamed like that when they changed Rits and Memers? Now you can be hit by some 400ish Spirit Rifts, 120ish E-surge( x4, think about roaring ethers groups), but nobody is QQing. Why Eles should be different?
Also, it's easier to counter ele damage respect armor ignoring. Wards, SY(and anything add armor), interrups(cause eles are just the toy of a good mesmer), just for example.

This solution was already discussed, and i still believe that isn't the way to go. It would bind the skill choices of players to the mob composition, wich can be even couteractive(e.g:meele mobs weak to fire/water and resistant to earth/air, wich meas no eruption/Bsurge/mass blind for follow the mob weaknesses).

Just reminding you....HM mobs have very higher attribute levels. If a player could inflict burning even 10% of times, a HM mob could do it 20-25% of times.

This is just repeating what said in countless other threads.
The "Ele HM damage and crappy skills/attributes" problem is already discussed: the point now is hope that Anet will do something.

On the subject of ele mobs, well..they still scare me. Specially earth ones.

About mob elemental alignement. Lets take for and example, our rocky friends outside sardelac. They are Earth and Melee. So they are resilient to Eruption. But in the other hand, it would be desirable to counter then with air magic (blinding flash) or water (blurred vision) or even throw dirt, since it is a skill, not an elemental spell. Even some sin skills and rit spirits could apply blind on earth-resilient foes. In GW there is always more than one way to do anything. I still dont see any issue on it.

Plus, its kinda logical, why would anyone dont bring fire when facing enemies based on cold? Its just a matter of fore planning. Since the game allows us to change builds at every outpost, why not?

Why dont we discuss specific cases of possible problematic monster encounters?

And to address the high attributes of monsters in HM its just a matter of capping "luck effects" at 10%.

DiogoSilva · Mar 08, 2011, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Removing the extra armor from HM foes (in exchange for something else, say, regeneration) and making the two pve-elementalist skills strong would already go a long way to make them the best nukers again - without affecting the mobs.

Sure, it still wouldn't fix their other issues, but those are usually related to bar compression, energy management, lots of useless skills, etc; and not about buffing the damage of skills that already are great at dealing damage.

AndrewSX · Mar 08, 2011, 08:53 PM // 20:53

@ agrios: sure, the point actually isn't say "This skill doesn't do enough damage, let's double it!" for all ele skill. That would be really a bad balance. What ele needs are (like says DiogoSilva) radical changes to the 80% of useless/undesirable skills/attribute/mechanics. For example, bar compression(3pve skills + at least 2 e-management skills = 3 or less slot for real playing), energy management(80 ene ISN'T good e-management..), lots of useless skills(PBAoE for example), glyphs sucks(except maybe GolE, that could still be improved), wards are like traps for rangers(static way of fighting is really undesirable, and makes very susceptible to AoE), cast time/cooldown issues, vulnerable when using Attunements(strip or interrupt it=60 sec of no energy), pve skills are pathetic compared with others profs.....just some examples.

And yes, the HM mob is one of biggest issue of a ele balance. And now i'm not scared of vanquish Drakkar lake(the lake i mean), filled by Dervishes, only thanks to new 7 heores...

P.S:If you'd like to see suggestion made, there's an apposite thread in this section...